How do these kind of studies touch reality also? It's not like there is any feasible way now (and probably ever) to make this practical. i.e. if someone asks for help, they cant operate on their epigenetics to remove a "scar".
Its like the fMRI studies etc in psychology-in real terms these studies are done with samples of 20-30 people, then coarse voxels (thousands of pixels) are statistically analyzed so the neurosciences can decide "what" it means and then say "more research is needed" to do the same useless research.
Presumably the Laughlin fellowship of the College of Psychiatrists where Volkow won a research post place looks very much as though it is one of the legacies of eugenicist Harry Laughlin
Robert Yerkes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Yerkes was one of the most influential of early American psychologists, published the Yerkes-Dodson curve in about 1908, the primate lab at Yale was named after him. It moved to Emory in Atlanta some time ago but a few years ago,they stripped his name from it as he was a firm advocate of eugenics. I keep saying that from 1900-1940, everybody was. The wealthy and educated were all behind that wagon, only became shameful after 1945. Emory itself was firmly on the Confederate side in Civil war, no apologies there.
Clear forceful piece, and the Kim H3K4me1 finding is a well-chosen anchor for it, a specific histone mark in the VTA that early stress leaves behind is about as concrete as this field gets.
The one thing I keep turning over: a chromatin mark like that still needs the underlying gene there to be marked, so the Kim data almost reads less like goodbye-genetics and more like the two working as one system, environment setting how the sequence gets used.
Oh, and BTW what are the mechanisms by which stress supposedly triggers epigenetic changes? What are the neural, hormonal and immunological pathways that might induce an epigenetic responses if they are not those already studied and well documented that coincide with stressful events, such as bereavement, having bombs dropped on you and so forth. Not to mention the effects of having one's perception of a safe niche in the world being upended.
There are simple models by which the output of a computational process can influence intracellular activity, such as activating genes to produce a particular protein, hormone etc. The question is: how do we recognise a threat? That's the essential first step.
Many, many, many moons ago, I read an article that claimed that life events can be encoded into RNA, as epigenetics. That life stress signals - such as being heavily Dominated - can affect 2 or 3 generations to come. This ties with research showing that certain genes activate (Or not) depending on life circumstances. A person's literal genetic development is dependent upon how they are treated, how confident they are allowed to be, fx.
It's not the case that all gene clusters are activated and off we go.
I have used these two examples to put the spoke in the wheel of those usually nasty people who go on and on and on and on and on about "IQ" before, - they themselves are ALWAYS "High IQ", needless to say. And the right so-called "Race".
It is an interesting notion that abuse can pass through 2-3 generations, that the children of those who 'tug the forelock' have a stronger propensity to do the same. As with all such matters of course, the mechanics can also produce a strong counter-reaction in *certain* individuals. But overall, the trend is that having parents who FEEL abused, powerless in their lives, and depressed from that, according to this theory can pass along that trauma through RNA to their children.
Now, I dunno. One can easily see the worn down parents and their children bright eyed and full of hope, the UK is full of them. And it's an obvious thought that such characteristics WILL be passed simply through social contact with their parents. I'm not a biologist, I can't judge the claim on RNA. But if it's an accurate theory, it would explain to some extent the ENORMOUS differences now between the Skandis, that have exceptionally banned abusive behaviour, especially in DK, now into the 4th and 5th generations, and the beaten down UK population where heavy abuse, from family, school and work and wider society/Class system, is, frankly, normal.
With all that said, the obvious first step EVEN IF part of the problem is stemming from genes, is to reduce the general abuse across society. End poverty, end workers with no stake, end abusive schooling, end bullying everywhere.
And if this is being transmitted into the short-generational RNA, then this can also be shoved directly into the faces of the "It's all genes!" crowd.
One disagreement though, with regards to "Information":
"I can buy a new computer and know everything about it, processor speed, memory capacity, how it actually processes information etc, but that will tell me absolutely nothing about the information it eventually holds: information, either in a computer or a human, is not physical. This sort of thinking confuses the mechanism of information processing with the informational content being processed. These are matters of a totally different order of nature, subject to different laws."
AFAIK, the physical structure can also be considered 'information'. In that worldview, everything is either information or energy. Your body is a physical thing, but it is also living information itself, created by the information-encoding genes. Of course, as Pirsig says in LILA, the information at the bottom of the pile, say the physical logic of transistors in the CPU, is quite different to the machine language controlling them, which is itself different to the OS built on top of that machine language, and the running word processor still a further level, and finally the essay within that WP.
You won't find your essay in the transistors, no matter how hard you look.
This makes sense to you too, Niall. :)
Said you'd like that book. ;) Plenty of other insights in there too.
Point is, AFAIK in information theory even physical objects are regarded as information too.
It's a minor niggle, the "is" in your statement woke me up to it.
Your description of the head of facility in WU is textbook Dominatory. And refuses to let any 'underlings' do any research in psychological domination and it's effects. Funny how that goes, it's almost like they are conscious of what they are doing. Nasty people, and it usually shows. Corporates love such types, and education is now corporate.
How do these kind of studies touch reality also? It's not like there is any feasible way now (and probably ever) to make this practical. i.e. if someone asks for help, they cant operate on their epigenetics to remove a "scar".
Its like the fMRI studies etc in psychology-in real terms these studies are done with samples of 20-30 people, then coarse voxels (thousands of pixels) are statistically analyzed so the neurosciences can decide "what" it means and then say "more research is needed" to do the same useless research.
Presumably the Laughlin fellowship of the College of Psychiatrists where Volkow won a research post place looks very much as though it is one of the legacies of eugenicist Harry Laughlin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_H._Laughlin
Her dedication to genetic causes of mental illness seems to be continuing Laughlin's convictions
Robert Yerkes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Yerkes was one of the most influential of early American psychologists, published the Yerkes-Dodson curve in about 1908, the primate lab at Yale was named after him. It moved to Emory in Atlanta some time ago but a few years ago,they stripped his name from it as he was a firm advocate of eugenics. I keep saying that from 1900-1940, everybody was. The wealthy and educated were all behind that wagon, only became shameful after 1945. Emory itself was firmly on the Confederate side in Civil war, no apologies there.
Clear forceful piece, and the Kim H3K4me1 finding is a well-chosen anchor for it, a specific histone mark in the VTA that early stress leaves behind is about as concrete as this field gets.
The one thing I keep turning over: a chromatin mark like that still needs the underlying gene there to be marked, so the Kim data almost reads less like goodbye-genetics and more like the two working as one system, environment setting how the sequence gets used.
This is so Interesting!
THANK YOU!
Good article, by referring epigenetics.
As your article ends with a biblical passage*, I would add Dean Hamer’s book The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Genes (2004).
Somehow, Sir, your VMAT2 "spoke".😃
*In fact by John Bradford
Oh, and BTW what are the mechanisms by which stress supposedly triggers epigenetic changes? What are the neural, hormonal and immunological pathways that might induce an epigenetic responses if they are not those already studied and well documented that coincide with stressful events, such as bereavement, having bombs dropped on you and so forth. Not to mention the effects of having one's perception of a safe niche in the world being upended.
There are simple models by which the output of a computational process can influence intracellular activity, such as activating genes to produce a particular protein, hormone etc. The question is: how do we recognise a threat? That's the essential first step.
Many, many, many moons ago, I read an article that claimed that life events can be encoded into RNA, as epigenetics. That life stress signals - such as being heavily Dominated - can affect 2 or 3 generations to come. This ties with research showing that certain genes activate (Or not) depending on life circumstances. A person's literal genetic development is dependent upon how they are treated, how confident they are allowed to be, fx.
It's not the case that all gene clusters are activated and off we go.
I have used these two examples to put the spoke in the wheel of those usually nasty people who go on and on and on and on and on about "IQ" before, - they themselves are ALWAYS "High IQ", needless to say. And the right so-called "Race".
It is an interesting notion that abuse can pass through 2-3 generations, that the children of those who 'tug the forelock' have a stronger propensity to do the same. As with all such matters of course, the mechanics can also produce a strong counter-reaction in *certain* individuals. But overall, the trend is that having parents who FEEL abused, powerless in their lives, and depressed from that, according to this theory can pass along that trauma through RNA to their children.
Now, I dunno. One can easily see the worn down parents and their children bright eyed and full of hope, the UK is full of them. And it's an obvious thought that such characteristics WILL be passed simply through social contact with their parents. I'm not a biologist, I can't judge the claim on RNA. But if it's an accurate theory, it would explain to some extent the ENORMOUS differences now between the Skandis, that have exceptionally banned abusive behaviour, especially in DK, now into the 4th and 5th generations, and the beaten down UK population where heavy abuse, from family, school and work and wider society/Class system, is, frankly, normal.
With all that said, the obvious first step EVEN IF part of the problem is stemming from genes, is to reduce the general abuse across society. End poverty, end workers with no stake, end abusive schooling, end bullying everywhere.
And if this is being transmitted into the short-generational RNA, then this can also be shoved directly into the faces of the "It's all genes!" crowd.
One disagreement though, with regards to "Information":
"I can buy a new computer and know everything about it, processor speed, memory capacity, how it actually processes information etc, but that will tell me absolutely nothing about the information it eventually holds: information, either in a computer or a human, is not physical. This sort of thinking confuses the mechanism of information processing with the informational content being processed. These are matters of a totally different order of nature, subject to different laws."
AFAIK, the physical structure can also be considered 'information'. In that worldview, everything is either information or energy. Your body is a physical thing, but it is also living information itself, created by the information-encoding genes. Of course, as Pirsig says in LILA, the information at the bottom of the pile, say the physical logic of transistors in the CPU, is quite different to the machine language controlling them, which is itself different to the OS built on top of that machine language, and the running word processor still a further level, and finally the essay within that WP.
You won't find your essay in the transistors, no matter how hard you look.
This makes sense to you too, Niall. :)
Said you'd like that book. ;) Plenty of other insights in there too.
Point is, AFAIK in information theory even physical objects are regarded as information too.
It's a minor niggle, the "is" in your statement woke me up to it.
Your description of the head of facility in WU is textbook Dominatory. And refuses to let any 'underlings' do any research in psychological domination and it's effects. Funny how that goes, it's almost like they are conscious of what they are doing. Nasty people, and it usually shows. Corporates love such types, and education is now corporate.